Monday, November 2, 2009

Kite Runner Fishbowl #1: Through Chapter 8

Remember that your goal is to participate thoughtfully at least five times during today's discussion. A few thoughts:

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3. If you are responding to someone directly, reference them in your comment.

4. Bring in quotations when possible.

Enjoy!

104 comments:

  1. This may be off topic and chapter but chapter 7 is very frustrating

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  2. Wow I think there is going to be a lot of discussion today because there was so much that went on in the first 8 chapters

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  3. as of right now i really do not like amir

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  4. Hey class! Its Cody K!!! I thought this chapter was really disturbing in many ways and I'm kind of not really sure why the author just sduddenly started talkiing about kites. Its obvious that kite running is a huge part of significance in the book, but I wanted to talk about what happened in the alley. I think that what happened is life changing like the author says, his life will never be the same and it affected Hassan forever as well.

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  5. Yes Chapter 7 had a lot of controversy! The discussors have already started talking about it.

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  6. I was wondering why Amir didn't stop Assef in Chapter 7. He could have stood up for Hasaan but he didn't. Why?

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  7. I have a question about Ali. He said that the main characters grandfather adopted the boy but then he said that they learned to crawl together. If his grandfather adopted the boy shouldn't he be Baba's age....??

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  8. I think Amir was to scared that the same thing would happen to him if he went to help.

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  9. I have to agree chapter 7 was very disturbing and i also don't like Amir very much

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  10. moe---I agree because you would not think that, that would happen to Hassan.

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  11. So i was wondering what you guys think... Why do you think Assef felt ok to do what he did to Hassan... do you think Assef is abused??? What do you think Assef's friends were thinking when they did that to Hassan. Why didn't they stop him?

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  12. Chase- I was wondering the same thing, but in the chapters before that he said that he wouldn't call Hasaan his friend

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  13. What does the title "The Kite Runner" represent?
    I think the title represents the friendship between Hassen and Amir. Every time Amir thinks of kites he thinks of the tragedy that happened to Hassen and he thinks of how bad of a friend he is. Amir makes his life bassed around getting a good relationship with Baba and trying to keep Hassen out of that relationship.

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  14. I think Amir is confused about who he is supposed to be friends with because he wants to protect Hassan but he thinks they aren't friends because he is a Hazaran so he doesn't want to endanger himself by protecting Hassan so he is being selfish.

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  15. Chase. i dont think Amir knew what to do. i would of been frozen in fear and disgust as well. Hassan is also his servant and he doesnt usually treat his as a friend in public.

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  16. Jake: yes I really agree, Amir is really selfish. It's so disappointing the way he treats Hassan so bad and always focuses on getting his dad's approval.

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  17. I think Melissa's question brings up a great point for the rest of the story. Why didn't Amir do anything while he watched this happen?! I think Amir was very selfish with what he decided to do, and the guilt that will follow him for the rest of his life will never dissapear. Maybe, Amir didn't want to get involoved because he was scared, but I dont think that is a good enough reason. My question is...If aMir could go baack, would he do that different??? How does the change in relationship with Amir and Hassan show something significant happening and does it symbolize something bigger in the story?

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  18. In a way, I feel like Chapter 8 was even sadder than Chapter 7. because Amir fealt so guilty. So he totally rejected Hasaan whenever Hasaan tried to reestablish their friendship.

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  19. They mentioned how Amir and Ali used to fly kites. Even that was shown earlier in the book.

    I think maybe he didn't stop him because he didn't know what to do...maybe he was in shock and didn't understand what was going on.

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  20. Meghan R -He is talking about being the same age as Baba. Amir and Hassen are the same age and Baba and Ali are the same age.

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  21. I think the title represents their friendships and how much time they spent together but what Amir could of done to help

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  22. The title could represent the events that happens on the day of the tournament. But also memories of that day. Amir doesn't stand up for hassan because he was to self centered and wants the attention from his dad. Amir also is constantly hating and going against what he says about his friendship with Hassan

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  23. I think Amir is very prideful and selfious. I agree with Kristen and Devin that Amir didn't want to mess up his and Baba's relationship. Amir didn't want to tell anyone about what had happened to Hassan because he didn't want to feel disliked by other Afghans. How do you think Baba would feel if he knew that his son, Amir knew about the rape?

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  24. Madelyn- I thing amir and Baba have a very weird relationship because he is always trying to impress his dadf and he want to live up to his expectations. I would not want that kind of relationship with my father.

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  25. Amir seems to be very jealous of Hassan because Hassan gets all the attention from Baba. For Amir it is very hard for him to get his dad's attention through a kite.

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  26. Kaity- i think the title "The Kite Runner" represents Hassan because Amir says that Hassan is the kite runner. the title shows respect to Hassan. Like making it all up to Hassan

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  27. I think it's hard on Amir to have the blame for killing his mom especially after Baba told him that he thinks the one sin is theft and killing someone is "stealing someone life" So Amir has to live knowing that his father thinks he is a sinner

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  28. Why did assef want to beat up amir and hanseen

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  29. Kaity-I think the title says what happened to Hassan and how they loved to fly the kites but the tragedy that happened because of them.

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  30. Do you think Amir and Hassan are very good friends?

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  31. I also agree with kristen. Amir and his father do not have a relationship based on love. He needs his dad to be proud of him instead of loving him.

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  32. It seems like baba hates his Amir but i think that part of the reason is because his dad died when he was a kid.

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  33. I enjoyed being in the hot seat right there. It really opened my eyes to this discussion

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  34. why do you think he call him baba but not dad?

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  35. The "Kite Runner" is about Amir's friend Hasan and how this one event changed both Amir's and Hasan's life forever.

    Amir in my personal opinion has been a self centered person the whole book. I never felt any simpathy or anything for him. He gets the world basically and the only thing he can think about is himself.

    Amir can't stand to see his father help Hasan and Ali. Amir should know that the main reason his father invites Hasan along on ever trip with Amir is because Hasan has nothing in my personal opinion correct me if im wrong.

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  36. Erica- Amir said that he thinks of Hassan like a brother, but only when people aren't around. So they are friends but Amir denies it when they are around others because he doesn't think it is ok to be friends with his servant.

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  37. Eric-

    Because that'a what he does.

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  38. I don't they are very good friends because they act like they hate each other and so thats how they show their feelings.

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  39. Cody- I think that the reason Amir did not stop the incident is because he was in shock. I think all of us can think of a time when we did not stand up for a friend because we did not know how. I think also in a sick way, he didnt want to humiliate Hassan more because if Amir stepped in they probably would hurt Hassan more because he couldnt stand up for himself. Also, the society is different and even though we think the right thing to do is to stand up for a friend, Hassan is not considered a friend in their culture. It is just the way he is raised.

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  40. Agree with TrentF11 about how chapter 7 was very disturbing and how Amir can be a jerk to Hassan.

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  41. Molly B - I think he thought it was okay to harm Hasssen like this because i feel like his parents act scared and weak and he does not want to end up like that. He knows that if he acts powerful he will others will be scared of him and will treat him more superior.

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  42. Sean: I agree with what you said about how Amir didn't stand up to Assef because of fear and just the shock of seeing what was happening. It would have been so shocking to see that it froze Amir from doing anything.

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  43. Hey class, when Hassan told Amir about the "dream" he had, i think he was just telling that dream to Amir to lift away his anxiety about having to win the kite fight to get his dads respect back. It was to give Amir a little confidence that he was going to win it.

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  44. Eric: Assef is just a bully, or thats how I seem him. He just wanted something to do and he talked about how he believed in the ways of hitler and how he wanted to bring that to their country and eliminate others and leave the country completely to Pastuns. He wanted to beat up Amir too because Amir ossociates with Hanseen and hangs out with him and thats just as bad in Assef's eyes.

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  45. But why do you think he treats him that way?

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  46. Erica- I think that hannsan and amir are really good friends. as you have seen throught the story amir is kind of gudged by a lot of people but Amir does not judge Hannsan at all.

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  47. I think that Baba is not really a big father figure to Amir at this point in the story. I think that Rahim Kahn is more of a father figure right now. Baba doesn't really take pride in Amir for what Amir is interested in. So I think that that is maybe why Amir never really refers to Baba as his father in the story.

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  48. I agree with jake mayo. I think assef has a lot of built up anger because he is talking about how he loved hitler and he wanted him to finish his work. That shows that he needs to vent his anger someway.

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  49. Erica: I think he calls him baba maybe because thats dad in their language. Or maybe if it's n0ot he doesn't that because Baba isn't really a fatherly figure to him, he doesn't seem very caring or loving, and Amir tells himself it is because when he was born he killed his mother and blames himself for him and in his eyes understands why his father isn't as loving as he could be.

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  50. Chase- I agree. Rahim Khan always pays more attention to Amir than Baba, and Amir makes it seem as though Baba sort of ignores him.

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  51. I think Amir feels so guilty that he just doesn't no what to do.

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  52. Erica- I think that is because he doesn't see Baba as a father but more of just an adult that he lives with

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  53. Do you think that Amir in some way feels that his moms death is some what his fault? and maybe that the reason for his relationship with baba?

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  54. Anthony-
    I think the Hassan's dream is huge, regardless of how it affected this chapter, I think it will be significant later in the story.

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  55. Meg- I dont think assef is a bully, necissarally. his mom was German and he took on his liking to Hitler, i think he doesnt relize what he's doing is wrong. Assef obviously isnt afraid of his parents and he seems like he owns his mom and dad. So he probably was not raised right

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  56. Meg- I dont think that baba is dad in there language but i do think that he calls him baba because he can not see him as a father figure or maybe baba tells him to call him that.

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  57. I agree with jake i think he has to get out his anger and has to take it out rather then just solving his problems himself.

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  58. I agree with Cody on how Hassan and Amir's friendship has kind of changed throughout the book because in the beginning Amir said he would always be there and then in chapter 7 all Amir could think about is the kite and not resolving the matter.

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  59. Erica-I agree with the second thing Meg said. I think that calling him by his first name is somewhat disrespectful because Amir feels that he deserves that because Baba is not muchh of a father and Amir thinks that Baba hates him.

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  60. I agree with Jake M also. Assef got his fight and anger from his father and so he cant really control his anger. Also, Jake L., thats a good point about how Assef was talking about Hitler and how he was such a hero to him. This makes you think that Assef really doesn't care if people get hurt. he doesn't have any feelings for other people.

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  61. Austin- I think thats a very good point that amir cared more about his dad loving him that basically saving his friend from a horrible experience. He was being selfish and he really hurt hassan. He did the wrong thing by not standing up for himself.

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  62. I HAD AN Epiphany! At the end of chapter 1 it states "There is a way to be good again." that must relate back to the rape seen maybe he is thinking if he told the truth maybe it could make things better with Hasan. I know it's a genius thought!

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  63. Dakota-Do you think he hates him because of the thing he did?

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  64. Sean: Assef said that his mother didn't believe in the ways of Hitler. So why would he take on the ways of Hitler even though he knows his mother doesn't follow those ways, and is German. He must figure that his ways are wrong, obviously his parents didn't teach him right from wrong but I still believe he has no reason to bully on other kids and call people names if they are not the type race that he believes should occupy Afganistan.

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  65. Dear Class,
    My question is: Do you think there is any symbolism in Amir's writing of his stories?

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  66. Do you think Rahim Khan is a forshadow for Baba of finally showing his love for his son and accepting who he is, as Rahim Khan has always done

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  67. On the topic of Devons question i think that its more that hassan may have not seen amir there but it was that he had no concern for him when he sees that hassan was bloodied and his shirt was riped and stuff like that and he didnt ever think to ask what was wrong.

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  68. Do you think that Baba loosing his father when he was a child plays a role in him not caring about his children that much?

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  69. Cody-
    That's a good thought. The dream i think will have a big impact later on in the story and it will also change Amir's courage and anxiety in difficult times.

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  70. Erica- I think Amir blames himself for his mothers death because Baba blames him for that and what Baba said that when you kill someone you are stealing from that persons family.

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  71. Meg- Yeah that totally makes sense

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  72. I agree with Kaity I how she says the kite runner is about Friendship and being loyal to your friends.

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  73. Eric K and CLASS
    WELL I looked it up, because i'm great. And Amir calls his baba because it is his language, they speak Turkish apparently. It translates from baba to father in turkish.

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  74. Erica and Meg- Good question/ answer to why he doesnt call him Dad. I was going to ask the question as well. Here is what I think. They describe Baba as a very powerful man. I think in their culture they do not refer to their parents as "Dad" Baba is his actual name. I also think that because there is no mother, he would rather be called by his first name, if that makes sense. A random connection but also in the book to kill a mockingbird, they call their dad by their first name, and they didnt have a mom as well... sorry. random.

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  75. To answer Erica's question i think yes because when Baba lost his father he probably was angered because of that and now treats his kids the same way cause of his childhood

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  76. Meg- Do the have a word for mom? he calls mom, mom.

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  77. kaity- Do you mean in the writing of the stories themselves or the first story he wrote about the man with the cup? Cause I think there could be symbolism either way.

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  78. Meg,

    I thought they spoke Farsi...

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  79. Meg- well than that makes sense but do they speak turrkey

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  80. I agree with everyone talking about how Hassan is starting to realize that Amir is not such a great friend and he realizes that Amir and Himself are not going to be friends.

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  81. Meg- My point was that he thinks his parents are wrong. He thinks that hitler was right because he doesnt respect his parents ways. his "Bullying" is his way of letting go of his anger and fufilling his "vision"

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  82. Erica- I do think deep down Baba feels that it is Amirs fault but he tries not to show it. However, Amir blames himself anyways

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  83. Eric K-
    I think that Baba loosing his father when he was a child gave him a little different thought about how you should treat your child. But he just is a very competitive man and he has so much more skill at a lot of things in life than his son does. Such as soccer. Amir is bad at soccer and doesn't have much skill at sports. So Baba just wants his son to be more skillful and more competitive.

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  84. Trent- but wouldn't you think he would want to spend more time with Amir? so the could be closer?

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  85. Erica: The word for mom is "anne". Maybe he just calls her mom because she died....I have no idea.

    Molly B: No its dad in turkish :)

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  86. Erica- I think that did play a role in how he treats his children because he never saw how fathers treat their sons

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  87. Meg-Why would they speak Turkish in Afghanistan?

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  88. Davis, I tihnk your "epiphony" is a good realization. I think this whole story will become a cycle of events that tie into each other until it ends up back at the beginning, and it can finally answer the question, How can Amir be good again, and is it the guilt and rape incident that makes him bad???

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  89. I agree with most people... Meg what are you talking about with the turkish thing

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  90. Ya i agree with Dakota there is no way they speak turkish in afghanistan

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  91. Devon- I think the palmagranet since its red is supposed to represent blood since he uses irony in this story so its another ironic situation.

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  92. Erica: I have no idea what Farsi is, but I like that word and thats the language google translate said.

    Eric: I guess so...?

    Sean: I agree but there should be a reason why he doesn't respect his parents and their views, that just bugs me because in America we mainly follow the ways of our family out of respect and tradition.

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  93. I think the other major problem with Amir is that he does have this superiority complex over Hassan and like when Assef was talking to Hassan and telling him that Amir really wasn't his friend because he only played with Hassan when they were by themselves. That showed that there was a bit of superiority issues between Amir and Hassan

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  94. Samw-
    that is true. he never got to see how fathers treat thier sons so that might make it hard for baba to treat his son like a son.

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  95. Hi,

    My name is Rob Dodson and I work in Afghanistan.

    I will be here to answer questions you might have about the country, the importance of the Kite and anything else you might like to understand.

    Afghanistan is tribal in nature, with five rather large cities. It is divided by mountains that range to 24,000 feet. As such, most of the population is isolated from one another.

    Kite running is still practiced today, during the fall and spring kites abound over the city of Kabul.

    We gave away some kites earlier this year and had both young boys and old men fighting over them. While they are not expensive by our standards ($3.00) they are almost always out of the reach for the average Afghan. Thus Kite Running is a means to get you own kite.

    Cheers,
    Rob

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  96. Translation of baba:
    I looked it up again and it translates into many languages into father or baby or whatever. I dont know why google chose turkish...So it must be father in persian (the language they speak in Afganistan...I think.)

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  97. They used the word blood, or bloody alot in this chapter. Why??

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  98. MegR......

    Baba is used to denote father/papa in Afghanistan. You will find the term associated with the founders of the country, to include the late King.

    The word bloody is used a lot due to the British influence in the region and thus the schools....seems to be popular with them.

    Rob

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