Monday, November 9, 2009

Kite Runner Fishbowl #4: Chapters 14-16

Fantastic comments, outer circle! Keep up the good work, but I have two challenges for you to take on today:

1. Get yourself on the inner circle at some point.

2. Bring in a direct textual reference (quote and/or page number) in at least one of your comments/questions.

Enjoy!

99 comments:

  1. Hey class!

    Why has Hassan stayed loyal to Amir after all the years?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Kristen-
    Hassan saw Amir as his best friend. He understood when they were little that he was Amir's servant but at the same time he truly saw Amir as his best friend. So I think that as much as Amir has hurt Hassan, he still cares for Amir with his whole heart and nothing could change that.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think Hassan has stayed loyal to Amir because of something in the past. Hassan may know something that Amir does not know.

    ReplyDelete
  4. kirstin i think hannsan stayed loyal because he is still so greatful for how is family treated him up till the point were amir betrayed hannsan

    ReplyDelete
  5. Kristin- I think that Hassan stayed loyal because he also knew that Amir could be good again. Much like Rahim Khan told Amir that there is a way to be good again. They both believe in Amir. I also think that Hassan is a very forgiving and loyal person and he knows the true side of Amir. But I think that Amir thinks he has lost his sensitive side.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Kristin- in the beginning you read about a secret bond between children the get nursed from the same woman, perhaps he feels that they are more like brothers than servant master.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I think Hassen has stayed loyal after all of these years because the two of them had such a great relationship as children and Hassen's job was as Amir's servant and he was loyal to him then and Hassen's attitude has not changed so he is still loyal.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Kristin- I think that Hassan thinks of Amir as his best friend, even if Amir doesn't. Hassan would have done anything for Amir and he still would do anything for Amir because of Hassan's view of their relationship.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Devon brings up a good point in that it's possible that Hassan also believes that Amir can be good again. In this, I think that Hassan has in ways moved past what happened to him. If not, how could he already forgive Amir and stay so loyal?

    ReplyDelete
  10. I think when it says there is a way to be good again. It means that Rahim know whats happened and know there is a way out and a way to be better.

    Do you think he will be good again?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Correct me if im wrong but when Amir says in the first chapter that when after the rape scene he never saw Hasan smile until awhile later. But in chapter 16 Rhim Khan told Amir that when he found Hasan in that distant village Hasan was saying he was happy there. But when Hasan says he's happy does that mean he was smiling?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Why does Amir keep losing all the people that are close to him?

    ReplyDelete
  13. How doo you think hannssan felt when he saw his mother for the first time? Do you think he felt hattred for leaving him when he was young?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Question for the class:
    I don't understand why Baba and Amir didn't stay in Afghanistan in the first pace.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Kristin-
    Hassan has stayed loyal to him because that's just the person he is. Even though everything Amir did to him; he still has respect for him and misses him. He just wants to be friends with Amir again; but, he doesn't realize Amir never called him his friend. Hassan also named his son Sohrab, which is Amir jan. He obviously had a great amount of respect for him; and saw Amir as a good person.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I have come to a epiphany. The title is "The Kite Runner" in memory of Hassan. Like the book is dedicated to him.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I agree with Anne. All Hassan really had as a friend was Amir. Amir was mean to him but Amir does still love him as a friend.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I would have to disagree with you Chaseo2012.
    I think that after what had happend to their relationship Hassan will veiw Amir differntly than he used to because he felt so abused and used by Amir

    ReplyDelete
  19. Kristin-
    I tihnk that is a great question to ask because there could be so much variation in the answers, but for me I think that it is unbelievable how Hassan has continued to remain loyal to Amir. I know I wouldn't so it is truly extraordinary how Hassan reacts to this. I like what Devon said about how Hassan has began to forgive him and stuff, because he has hope in Amir, and this sense of "Being good again," and starting to undo the sins, and get the lives of many back on track begins to appear.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Hey class do you think that the slingshots symbolize anything?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Kristin-In the beginning of the book it tells us that Amirs people, the Pashtuns persecuted Hassans people, the Hazaras.I think this parallels Amir and Hassan relationship. Hassan stays loyal to Amir because it may be his custom from past history.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Kaity- Amir and Baba decided to leave Afghanistan because of the violence that the Russians were causing from their invasion.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Kristin- I believe that the reason Hasan has stayed so loyal to Amir is because even though he konws that Amir saw what happened he knows that if he was in that situation he might have done that as well.

    ReplyDelete
  24. To all- How symbolic tdo you think "" For you a thousand times over!" is?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Kaity-
    That was the time when Russia had invaded Afghanistan and life wasn't safe for Baba and Amir. Baba knew a war was on the brink of occurring so he got out early both to protect himself but also to protect Amir.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Meg! You brought up a great point about the title. I hadn't thought about the title in that way before. I was just thinking of the title as a symbol of his past but also Hassan and Amirs relationship. That one day he won the tournament was both the best and worst time in his life.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Devon-
    I agree that Rahim Khan and Hassan believe in Amir by giving him the chance. By letting Amir travel to Pakistan shows that he can fix things if he really wants to.
    Anne-
    I think that pointing the kites at Golden Gate Park back to kite fighting is really good. I also think that when Amir sees kites anywhere, he always travels back to his childhood winters with Hassan. Even if Amir doesn't like thinking about Hassan he cannot get him out of his mind because they grew up together.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Maddie - I think the sling shots could simply symbolize Hassen's bravery and courage.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Erica- Honestly, I think that the one line, "For you a thousand times over" is the centerpiece of this book. It represents Hassan's undying loyalty to Amir.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Madeline:
    I think it symbolizes because first Hassan did it and then his daughter/son did it to protect Amir. (I think thats in chapters to come...whoops.) Which again symbolizes Hassan's son didn't even know Amir and he proteced him and still was loyal to him just like Hassan.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Kaity-
    I think Amir and Baba left Afghanistan in the first place because Baba wanted to protect Amir to become a man; he probably thought the best place for this was somewhere safe. Since Afghanistan was under a different rule and being attacked; Baba thought America would give Amir opportunity and a chance for him to forget his past. Baba shows that he cares for Amir and wants him to have a chance at life and become successful like Baba.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I don't mean to take up any weird questions about religion and stuff, but could Hassan represent Jesus Christ and how he was considered a low-life while he lived on Earth and was treated very poorly here, but he continues to forgive what some consider inforgivable sins?? I think this very hard thing to grasp, forgiving something so bad like what Amir has done to Hassan shows a symbol of Jesus Christ...what do you guys think?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Class-
    This is less based off of the story itself but more on the author.
    Khaled Hosseini also wrote a book called A Thousand Splendid Suns, about two Afghani women. So with the title of his second book and the line "for you a thousand times over", is number one thousand somehow significant to the stories, Afghanistan, or the author?

    ReplyDelete
  34. MEG I also agree that is a really good point. I think that when he thinks about the kites he also remembers Hassan and their childhood.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Meg- You raise a good point about the title being for Hasan and i believe that near the end of the book or soon in the story that Hasan might die for Amir like take a bullet for him as his last gift to Amir

    ReplyDelete
  36. to meagan L- I do not know what you are talking about i am sure amir would have still become a man in Kabul

    ReplyDelete
  37. Anne- Well, i don't understand why he let Rhaim Kham stay behind. Why would he not of offered take him with them?

    ReplyDelete
  38. kaity- I think that they left not only because of the war that had started, but i also think that it was important to the author to kind of separate the Amir from his past and put him into a new environment to show how it had affected him.

    ReplyDelete
  39. What do you think will happen with his trip to packastan?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Madeline- I think the slingshots represent two generations, the slingshot symbolizes both childhood as well as the need to stand up for what is right. Both Hassan and Sohrab use a slingshot to stop Assef, even though Hassan only has to threaten to use his, and Sohrab actually inflicts pain.

    ReplyDelete
  41. What do you think Amir's reactions were when Rahim Khan told him about Hassan? Especially after Hassan named his only son Sohrab.

    ReplyDelete
  42. I think that when Amir is Looking for Hassan and Rahim, he wants to tell them about Baba and to talk to them or admit something to them.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Devon! Thanks, I try. But it would make sense because then in the book it transformed from Amir's relationship with Hassan, and now it's Amir's relationship with Sohrab. It's like a cycle!

    ReplyDelete
  44. Cody-I have to disagree I don't think Hassan represents Jesus at all because thats not his character and thats not how he acts. Even though they may have some of the same traits Hassan is not even close to Jesus. Hassan would have to do everything good to be like him which Hassan isnt.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Erica- I truly think that he will come back to sorya and ask her to move to packastan.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Anne- I really like that reference, i think its the author

    ReplyDelete
  47. Question for the class:

    Why do you think Hasan's mother became so close to his son?

    ReplyDelete
  48. Erica-
    I think Amir's trip to Pakistan will change him completely. I think when Amir comes back to America he will have a different view on the Afghans around him. He will probably become guilty again and tell Soraya everything that happened in his past.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Cody- Holy cow that is a really good connection; I totally agree. Every story has a savior figure in it.. and perhaps that is why he can say there is a way to be good again, just like in Christian religions how you use the atonement to "get rid of the sin".

    ReplyDelete
  50. Eric- I agree with Megan because in Kabul he was still constantly trying to earn his fathers respect. But also in Kabul everyone only looked upon Amir as "Baba's son" I think that Baba realized that it was time for Amir to earn his own name and the only way to do that was to move to some place that not a lot of people knew their family name. In making a name for himself Amir also had to become a man to accomplish that.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Cody-Wow how interesting for Hassan to represent Jesus Christ. I would have to disagree. Jesus was a leader and Hassan is very quiet. Although they both do the right things, I don't think Jesus is close to Hassan. (:

    ReplyDelete
  52. Kaity-
    I don't have a solid answer for that. We can't exactly know for sure why Baba did that. It's easily possible that Rahim lived in a different area of Afghanistan when Baba and amir left. But I think it's also possible that Rahim felt that he didn't have much to gain from leaving Afghanistan. Baba got to see Amir grow up in a safer country by leaving Afghanistan but Rahim Khan doesn't have a child that he has to worry about. I think Rahim chose to stay in Afghanistan, whether we know if Baba offered for him to leave or not.

    ReplyDelete
  53. I feel like when Amir takes Sohrab to America, and is supposed to give him off to someone he won't be able too. He will think so much of Hassan and he will be too attached to just leave him, also he will feel alone since Baba is gone. Then the rest of the book they will live together and their lifes will go on. Then at the end of the book it will be Amir's turn to die then Sohrab will continue on.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Erica- I think Amir will find out more secrets about his past and everything will keep piling up until he breaks and reveals his secret.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Trent-
    I know that Hassan isn't perfect, and can't compare to Jesus, but does it kind of remind you of Jesus in a way, considering how he has basically forgave Amir for such a sin?

    ReplyDelete
  56. Moe- I think that Hassan's mother felt so bad for abandoning her son that she had to come back to find him.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Cody-
    I think that Jesus Christ does represent Hassan and Amir. Amir hated the loyalty of Hassan and how strong it was. He did like how Hassan forgave him for everything he did.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Kristin- I think Hassan has stayed loyal to Amir all these years because they have known each other for along time and they have each other's trust.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Question for the class:
    Why is it that so many building and houses are destroyed, but Baba's house still stands?

    ReplyDelete
  60. Moe Fo Sho- I think that Hassan's mother became so close to Hassan because she felt guilty about leaving him. It was her way to be "good again". But why did she adore Hassan's son so much? To me it shows that she didn't get a chance to raise Hassan, so she wanted to be that stable figure in his sons life.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Moe-
    I think Hassan's mother became close to her grandson because she made the mistake of leaving Hassan after he was born and just wants to forgive Hassan in a way that is comfortable for her. I also think that its her way of becoming young again and she feels like she is raising up Hassan.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Chase-

    But why would it take the mother so long to realize her mistake?

    ReplyDelete
  63. Kaity:
    Baba's house stayed there because Baba had been the richest like in power guy out there, so you have to expect his house to be pretty extravagant and fancy, so they kept it standing and then the new people in power moved into that house, after they killed Hassan and the Hazara family that had been living in there.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Kaity- In the book, it talks about how some districts of Kabul are less war ravaged than others. I think that the district that Baba's house is in just happens to be one of those districts.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Cody-
    I agree with you, I do think Hassan represents a Jesus-like figure. Hassan shows forgiveness towards his mother who abandoned him so many years before. Even though Jesus was way different I do see Jesus in Hassan. Hassan hasn't been treated the way he's been treating others. When Amir never came to save him in the alley; he doesn't hold it against Amir. He still considers Amir his best friend. Hassan doesn't hold grudges toward people and has a great amount of forgiveness toward everyone.

    ReplyDelete
  66. do you think he will run into Assef? And if he does will it be a good or bad reunion?

    ReplyDelete
  67. Im not saying they represent each other or are even close to each other, because they are not...but does Hassan's forgiveness somewhat remind you or make you think of how Christ forgave all of our sins no matter what or how bad the sin was?

    ReplyDelete
  68. I agree with Nikki because they have stayed loyal to each other because they have been together and been friends forever. Its hard to not be loyal to someone when you've been friends with them forever and always done everything together.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Hassan's mother was a huge surprise to Hassan after thinking she had abandoned their family. I would be shocked after not seeing my mother for many years and thinking she didn't exist.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Kaityi-

    I think they kept Baba' s old house because it is something symbolic in the book and it may be very important later in the book.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Moe Fo Sho-
    To add on to Devon's comment, which brought up some really good points, Hassan's mother saw the effect that her abandoning him had on her. She doesn't want Hassan's son to go through the same experience that Hassan went through, even though Hassan's son still has his mother with him. This is her chance to make up for what she did wrong and somehow prove to Hassan that she wishes she had done things differently.

    ReplyDelete
  72. kaity- I think Baba's house still stands because it represents how powerful and strong he was.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Question for the class:
    Did the book ever say what Rhaim Kham was sick with?

    ReplyDelete
  74. Do you think it would have been better for Hassan ifhe would have never meant his mother

    ReplyDelete
  75. Is it just me or is the phone call in the beginning of the book like the same phone call in chapter 14 that Amir gets from Rahim Khan?

    ReplyDelete
  76. Erica: I definitely think it will be bad. I believe Assef will probably be at some point of power with this killing of Hazara's, just because of the way he used to treat others while he was just a boy. When Amir is getting Sohrab he probably runs into them or get's in trouble or something along those lines.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Anthony- I agree with your comment. I also think that Amir was jealous of how strong Hassan was. I think his dad liked Hassan more because of it. He acted more like a man at the time.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Kristin- Thats a good thought. I agree. I think Hassan's mother just wanted to make up for what she did to Hassan by acting as a very good grandmother to her grandson.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Kaity- That is a great question. I think that Baba's house represents a lot to Kabul as a whole. Even though the invader may not know that was the case. The fact that it was still standing when Amir returned to his homeland shows that no matter how much may change around the place that you grew up, there will always be something to bring back those memories as if nothing had ever changed.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Trent-
    I agree and disagree. I believe that Hassan has stayed loyal to Amir because Amir is Hassan's best friend and always will be. I the beginning of the book Amir said that he would never consider him and Hassan friends because Hassan was the servants son.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Emily-
    That's the same phone call that the author is referencing. He is returning to the beginning to have the first 14 chapters go full circle.

    ReplyDelete
  82. I do agree with Cody's thought. Hassan's forgiveness does kind of remind me of Christ's forgiveness. Hassan just kind of has an unconditional love for Amir, like Jesus!

    ReplyDelete
  83. When they talk about when the mom died they put her by the pomegranate tree, does that have to do with Amir throwing the pomegranates at Hassan?

    ReplyDelete
  84. Reflecting off my last question about Baba's house not being destroyed:
    Hassen was killed right outside of the hose. Why wouldn't the soldiers want to destroy such an extravagant home? Why didn't they pillage through it?

    ReplyDelete
  85. Kaity-
    I think the reason Baba's house still remains is because it is in the richer area of Kabul. It seems like when there is any sort of disaster the richer area neighborhood of a city seems to be better preserved, although I am just generalizing.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Emily!!- The phone call at the beginning of the book was the same phone call. Amir was reflecting on the past.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Erica-
    I'm not sure that I agree that Hassan acted like more of a man. In all the years that Baba lived with Hassan and Amir, Hassan never stood up for himself and was never violent.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Kaity:
    You're just full of good questions today that I feel the need to answer to the best of my ability. Well, they never directly said what Rahim was sick with, but they said he was coughing up blood, and he used to smoke with Baba. And coughing up blood is a side effect to lung cancer, which is what Baba had too. So I predicted that is what he has. Although they have not said the answer to your question flat out....yet?

    ReplyDelete
  89. Eric-
    I dont think it would have been better for Hassan to not meet his mother because it now gives Hassan a sense of relief knowing that his mother is alright and that she is alive. He is probably still mad at her for leaving him but i think that it will help him.

    ReplyDelete
  90. I believe that "The Kite Runner" is all about respect and strength over weakness. which means that Amir is going to talk with Hasan about what happened that day even though Amir said in chapter 7 that Hasan never talked about what went on in the aly with Assif.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Emily/Devon:
    Chapter 16 was Rhahim's side of the story so it was the same thing.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Erica-
    Was Baba aware of this though?

    ReplyDelete
  93. Nice last comment jake. I don't think Rahim has any regrets.

    ReplyDelete
  94. I agree with ericaw on how when something happens in the richer area is seems like they are more likely to stay in one area when the less rich area are more likely to be destroyed.

    ReplyDelete
  95. All,

    Some really good points raised, I will try to add some thoughts.....

    We are dealing with two ethnicities here, the Pashtuns and the Hazaras. These two groups of peoples do not get along at all, even today. The Hazaras are looked down upon because they are of Asian descent. One can identify a Hazara very easily. The Hazaras are descendants of Genghis Kahn who destroyed the country to a large degree (he sacked Herat in a week, killing 1.6 million people). The Afghans have long memories.

    The Pashtuns have been warriors since before the time of Alexander. They fought him to a standstill that resulted in his marriage to Roxanne to end the conflict. Roxanne was from the Pashtun tribe that was the Royal family. Alexander was known as Sakandar, Kandahar City and Province are named after him (which is the birthplace of the Taliban).

    Baba's house was in the Embassy District in Kabul (where I live) which did not suffer much in the way of damage during the Sovier invaision - their senior people lived there. It is also the same area of the what is now the Presidential Palace and where the UN and other large organizations are located. Even during the destruction of the City by Hekmatyar and the Hizbe-Islami-Gulbuddin (HIG), it was generally spared.

    A couple of questions for you.....

    What is the familial relationship between Hassan and Amir?

    What is the role of the male head of the house in Afghanistan (even today)?

    What is the value of the Kite Runner to the men of Afghanistan?

    Cheers,
    Rob

    ReplyDelete