There seems to be no religion in this story, do you find this weird and how do you think the government had cut this out?
And why do you think it was cut out?
ClassAfter Montag started reading books he started to question love in general. He mostly questions the love of the people from the t.v. walls. Why do you think changed his mind set about life between meeting Clarisse and reading the books?
Meg, they burned most of all the books, witch was where all history religion and most everything at the time was recorded
Meg-Religion is not equal. People's beliefs are higher than those who don't believe. The society aims for a more equal society which means there would be no differences in religion and that everyone would be forced to believe in the same things.
I think that religion was cut out because it causes conflict. There is a bias with religions because each one has a different point of view and there isn't specifically a right and wrong answer. I don't know how the government cut it out because each person can maintain their own opinion but the resources such as a bible won't be there.
MegR-I find this very weird that there is no form of religion in their system of beliefs. I strongly do think that the government ha a strong part in them not having any religion.
Something that i have noticed throughout the book is a lot of the vocabulary Bradbury uses is "fire" related.Page 63:Montag watched through the window as Beatty drove away in his gleaming yellow-flame-colored beetle with the black, char colored tires".What is the significance of using vocabulary related to fire?
I agree with Sean without books less people will follow because they have no proof.
Meg I think that there is no religion in the book because not everyone is happy with one religion. When Beatty came over to talk to Montag after he watched the lady burn herself, Beatty explained why firemen burn books. From my understanding, they burn books because the government wants everyone to be happy and not everyone is happy with every book that is published. I think that that is the only reason they don't have religion in the book.
Davis on the inner circle- When you said that Guy Montag trusts his wife I completely agreed with you because he would not have showed his wife the books if he did not trust her.
Emily-I agree because the conflict of religion has always influenced differences in opinion and others look down on others as though they aren't equal to them. Also what Sean said, when they started burning books they probably burned all bibles and traces of religion which intern eliminated the religion and inequality.
Books are knowledge and with knowledge you can do anything.
Kristin- I think that he changed his mind set because Clarisse showed him a new perspective and something different that he hadn't seen before. When your mind is open to something new it creates a sense of curiosity and Montag is giving into that.
I agree with Devon that it does cause conflict and in their society they don't want any conflict at all. The government wants everyone to be equal and religion will separate people from that.
CLASSOn page 79 and 80 Montag talks about "lilies" and "Denhams's Dentifrice", I was so lost. What did that passage mean?
Kaity- i think it is just a theme he uses to symbolize the excessive burning of all the books.
KristenW- I think he has changed since he last talked to Clarisse. Reading the books made him change and it seems like he is starting to act like Clarisse. The books may be changing him for the greater good.
Gabe- When you said the books do not have proof of anything you are right, but I think the reason the books are so tempting is because they are mysterious. No one knows if they are true or not.
Kaity-I believe in this passage fire refers to the strong belief in burning books that Beatty holds. He strongly believes and follows the government around him.Throughout the book I think fire is being related to the overall theme of the book. Fire is a symbol to what causes differences in a society whether there good or bad. For Bradbury to refer to such like things as fire is revealing how this society is corrupt/different.
Kristin-Like Travis said, it's weird that there is no religion. Religion is a part of every society and influences your every day life. Even when you don't believe in God or aren't religious, that is called something and it is (in it's own way) a sort of religion. So is there a religion they live by? Is it the government they worship instead of a god? What did the government do/say to influence this new look on society?
Kaity- I'm pretty sure that is the title of the book.
KaityI am confused also. I thought that he was going through his mind and just thinking of happier thoughts (like "lillies"). I didn't understand the why he kept saying "Denham's Demtifrice". I think that it might have a deeper meaning from one of the books her read.
Kaity-I think that he uses fire to remind the reader about what made the society what it is. Fire destroys not only books but also a society and it is something that feeds and grows. But the fire is actually having the opposite effect and as a whole it is declining with a lack of knowledge.
I agree with Emily Kelly when she says that Mildred is extremly unhappy with her life. She tried to kill herself and she does not realize how sad she it.
Speaking of equality....Has anyone else noticed they haven't spoke at all about skin color? Because in a way skin color (because of it's past) is a source of not being equal, so what could the government have done to eliminate this problem. Even if they eliminated the past there would still be that obvious difference that anyone could blatantly see.
kaity- to answer your earlier question, i think that fire related vocabulary is used frequently throughout the book because the atmosphere where they live is full of evil thinks. fire produces smoke and smoke covers things up from being viewed. This relates to how the government is blocking societies view of knowledge by banning educational books.
Kaity- I think he uses "fire" in his vocabulary a lot because he has worked to much with burning books.
I strongly agree with what mitchell2012 said because most people that are smart have done something good with their lives. Look at all the presidents they have graduated from big law schools and to get into those schools you have to be very smart.
I agree with what Sean had said because with out books there is know way to really know what is going on in the world or what has happened in the past.
Denham's Dentifrice is an old word for toothpaste
MEG-PEOPLE CAN SEE IT BUT THE RACIAL TENSION WAS PARTLY FUELED BY OTHER INFLUENCES AND IF THE PAST IS GONE MAYBE THEY DON'T understand the difference or something. (I didn't mean for that to be in caps my bad!)
MegYou brought up a really good question. I haven't noticed anything about skin color. I think that the government has put people with a different color skin in a separate society to create equality within the societies.
Meg- i was wondering the same thing! I think that there probably is equality with races because its almost past the point of equality between races. its to a more extreme level of being equal with knowledge.
Meg-yeah i noticed that to that they have not said anything about color, its most likely because they all want everyone to be equal. There might be some color but they just don't mention it in the book, but I am not sure.
class: What have you noticed about the change in Montags behavior and how do you think it will change throughout the rest of the book?
Meg-I have noticed that too. But the question that I have is that if they are eliminating the past, such as civil rights, wouldn't that create a relapse of the past? If there is no history to learn from then racism might start again but if the society truly treats everybody the same how do they maintain this with out history or knowledge?
Meg-Since they didn't separate anyone else because of their differences, rather make them more equal, I think they would keep every skin color in the same society. With a society growing to be more equal, I strongly believe that the people of the society won't even notice skin color. It's almost like their eyes and everything else around them is being adapted which makes everything equal.
Dakota- THANK YOU FOR YOUR input.Kristin- Do you think they would be governed by the same people or by a different group of people who are the same skin color as them?Beanie-Check out Kristin's comment about maybe splitting them into separate societies.
MollyI disagree with you. The was written about the future however, Bradbury wrote the book in the early 1950's when there was still separation between people. I think that Bradbury went with the present and set the future without changing the separation.
mollyb2012: I have noticed that Montag has became more rebellious because he is keeping some of the books that he was supposed to burn like the Bible.
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Devon-I strongly agree with you in that if their is no books to learn from the past and the civil rights movement, then people wouldn't know the difference. People in this society are ignorant, which in a way is good thing but also can serve as not knowing good from bad. If books are being burned which hold the knowledge of the differences in people such as race, religion, ect., then why and how would the government know what's equal as to what's not?
Determine why the government keeps so much from the people and why they leave them in the dark? Also why the Bible is outlawed?
Molly, I feel like Montag is getting along a lot better with his wife. It seems like they now have a stronger relationship. I also think he is going a little crazy from reading all the books and feeling guilty.
Sean:Austin just said they didn't burn the bible and they kept it. Just a by the way.Class: If they didn't burn the bible then why isn't there religion/why isn't it mentioned?
MegThat's another interesting point. I have no idea if people with different skin were governed by people with the same color skin or if everyone is governed by the same government. I think that they were all governed by the same government just the people with different skin were more isolated.