Welcome to our first formal fishbowl discussion of second semester! This discussion will cover topics in Fahrenheit 451 up through page 28.
Outer circle: Remember that you're aiming to make about five quality comments; be thorough in your responses, and bring in textual passsages when you can. Enjoy!
Class
ReplyDeleteWhy does Bradbury compare the machine that pumps the drugs out of Ms. Montag to a snake? What does it symbolize?
Why do you think that the first section of the book is called "the Hearth and the salamander"?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the first section of the book is so long compared to the other sections?
ReplyDeleteWhy is Guy Montag so attracted to Clarise when there opposites?
ReplyDeleteI think it symbolizes how un-human humans have become and how machines are taking over the role of living things.
ReplyDeleteMeg- I think the first section is longer than the others because it is more of an introduction to the book and sets the scene.
ReplyDeletemontag doesnt have the best relationship with his wife and he is not happy.
ReplyDeleteGood question Kristin. I was wondering the same thing. Maybe the machines are compared to a snake because snakes are known as dark creatures and this was a dark time in the book.
ReplyDeleteEmilyW - I think he is "attracted" to her because she's a curious girl, and she has a lot of things to say, and she knows a lot about how things used to be.
ReplyDeletewhat does the autumn leaves represent when Montag is walking home?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteEmily- I think that Montag is so attracted to Clarise is because she is different and she knows that she is. He thinks that she is interesting and wants to get to know how she can be so different for other people.
ReplyDeleteKristin-I think that snakes are compared because people get the poison of a snaked taken out of them similar to the machine that Mildred was hooked up to.
ReplyDeleteMontag hates his wife. She doesn't really count him as family and, they sleep in two separate beds
ReplyDeleteI think that Guy Montag is so attracted to Clarise because she understands him. Opposites attract so just because they are opposites from each other doesn't mean that they can't get along.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Molly's question. I think that it is called "The Hearth and The Salamander" because in this first section of the book Montage is a fireman and his life revolves around fire. The Hearth is where a fire burns and the salamander is the fire truck that they drive. These two things are a good representation of Montage at this time in his life.
ReplyDeleteEmily, I agree with Nick K. He has never met anyone like Clarise before, and so he finds her interesting.
ReplyDeleteEmily- I think Montag is so attracted to Clarise because there is no one else in the world like her. She tells him a lot of things that no one ever knew were true. He likes her because she is so mysterious.
ReplyDeleteEmily W; montag is so attracted to Clarise because of the theme that opposites atract. Also she is something new in his life that breaks his routine and intrigues him
ReplyDeletein response to Emily's question, i think that the reason why montag is so attracted to Clarise is because they are so opposite. they are both curious about one another because they are both so foreign. White and black, to me the colors of the characters, contrast one another, but they compliment each other as well.
ReplyDeleteDoes Clarisse find the world she lives in beautiful?
ReplyDeleteI disagree Sean, I think that he loves his wife, but to an extent. If he didn't love her, he wouldn't have called the emergency services to come out and save her after she ODed.
ReplyDeleteEmily: I think he finds Clarisse interesting, because she knows the laws and the ways of their society but purposely defies them. She has alot of opinion's, allowing them to have strange interesting conversations. Which is completely different then his relationship with his wife who he seems to not have any relationship with at all.
ReplyDeleteMitchell2012
ReplyDeleteI agree will you in the fact that they don't have a good relationship together. However, when I was reading, I noticed that Montag still cares about his wife even though she doesn't want to be around him.
Kaity
That is a really good point. To many people snakes are known as dark creatures and bad when they are around.
Molly- It's when Montag still thinks what he is doing (burning books) is right.
ReplyDeleteEarl - I don't think she cares much about the world outside of her huge TV's on the walls. She's too dependent on technology.
ReplyDeleteWhy are the humans in the book portrayed as robotic?
ReplyDeleteMildred talks about installing a 4th wall. What does this symbolize about the world and its advancements in technology?
ReplyDeleteThe hearth and the salamander are there because a hearth is where the fire burns and there are some myths about salamanders and that they come from fire.
ReplyDeleteHi Meg, so answering your question...the hearth and the salamander both represent fire and in the beginning it shows why the fire's are started.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Montag is depressed because secretly he truly does like books and the knowledge it presents to its readers.
ReplyDeleteEarl: I think Clarise likes to enjoy nature even though she knows the world has become a little corrupt.
ReplyDeleteI agree with EmilyK because this is what represents him at this point in his life. How his life revolves around the fire and the burning of books.
ReplyDeletesean- montag and his wife grow apart every day and i think that he thinks about clarisse nore than his wife
ReplyDeleteKristinW- I agree that they don't have a good relationship and that he does still care for her and he doesn't really realize that she doesn't want to be with him.
ReplyDeleteEarl- I think Claisse does not find the world beautiful because she realizes people do not understand the beauty of books and how mmuch they have to offer us.
ReplyDeleteNick K- Hate probably too strong of a word, but he does not love her. He obviously can't care for her much because of how disconnected she is from him.
ReplyDeleteEarl
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarisse doesn't think that the world is beautiful because she always wants to go against the rules that are put in place. When she kept asking Montag if he was happy, I think that it portrays that she is questioning the world around her by trying to understand other people. I think that she is trying to find the beauty in the world.
Earl-
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarise does find the world beautiful because she has a unique and interesting perspective on life. Her unique thoughts on situations makes the world beautiful because of the diversity she displays even though other people may not see things her way.
Earl - Disregard my last comment, I read that question wrong.
ReplyDeleteIn the book it appears Montag is the only person that actually knows what is going on in life. He comes home and finds his wife attempting to overdose herself. The morning after the attempt his wife does not even remember the event that went on the night before. Nobody seems to notice things or think about things accept for him and Clarisse. Everyone in the world seems to be "programed", a robot. They all do what they are supposed to. No risks.
ReplyDeleteCLASS:
ReplyDeleteDo you think there is something wrong with his wife? Why does she take the pills? Why does she stay in the house all day...or is that normal in their society unless you have a job?
Hi Dakota...that doesn't really answer my question but thank you for your input, I shall take it to consideration.
Emily W: Wanting to install the fourth TV Wall represents how much technology has taken over in their lives. This makes them less likely to interact with one another. This also ties into why Clarise and Montag have such a good relationship. They have a good relationship because Clarise is not brainwashed by all the technology and they can have in depth conversations with out being interrupted.
ReplyDeleteSean - I agree.
ReplyDeleteEmilyK-
ReplyDeleteI believe in my personal opinion that the main reason that the author portrays the characters as robots is because when people think of pure equality there is no room for people to stand out.
Montag i think thinks of claisse more than his wife because the relationship they have is actually something real where they are interested by each other. But Montag and his wife have no connections or ever talk, i think that they're just married because its the thing to do in their society
ReplyDeleteTo class:
ReplyDeleteDo you think anything will happen to Clarisse, because of her wondering around all the time?
Class: What do you think caused this society that burns books and is very robotic?
ReplyDeleteIn response to Earl. i think that clarisse does find the world beautiful, but only the natural world. she doesn't seem to be amused at all by the technology or what the humans have created and almost despises it. she realizes that people aren't happy and she wants to figure out why they continue to live the way they do if they aren't happy.
ReplyDeleteyeah, I guess it made more sense in my mind meg. oh well, I tried.
ReplyDeleteEmily K-
ReplyDeleteI think that humans in the book are displayed as robotic because most of the time people follow the "norm" in society. Robots respond and do what you tell them to do because they have no other way of thinking. Even though people can have their own opinions some are afraid to break the rules in fear of getting in trouble.
EmilyK
ReplyDeleteI think that humans are portrayed in the book as robotic to symbolize that as humans we depend too much on technology. The technology has changed our mind set forcing us to only believe or think what technology and taught us.
Emily K: I believe that the author makes them portrayed as robots because the machines and the humans/ living organisms switched places, we are now just there to serve the computers to get rid of all foreign information (Books).
ReplyDeletekristen- i agree that their relationship is not working out and montag doesnt really see this
ReplyDeleteCaleb- I agree with your statement about how everyone in the world is naive and they do not know what the real world is actually like or what it used to be like.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think is in the vent that Montag looks at when he gets home and seems to resent it being there?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Devon that Clarise does think the world is beautiful, but I also think that she thinks the world was better in the past, and that they should not be so restrictive.
ReplyDeleteMolly:
ReplyDeleteI think the fact that in our present time we have so many different types of books and the spreading of words seems to spread very easily, so I think the government might have been offended or something traumatic happened persuading the government to attempt to stop such happenings because they feel it will cause problems. Maybe?
Sean-I believe eventually something will happen to Clarise. The society they live in doesn't believe in history but the advancement of technology. Clarise is still living how people used to. The society will try to rid her curiosity (that's why they burn books)
ReplyDeleteAustin, I agree. Montag seems to have a better relationship with Clarisse. He can talk to her and be open about things. Mildred does not pay much attention to him. Their relationship is "fake". They do not truly love each other.
ReplyDeleteMeg: I feel like she is not the only one taking pills. Montag took a sleeping pill on page 18 "I don't know anything any more," he said, and let a sleep lozenge dissolve on his tongue. I think this is an easy way to make life a little less stressful.
ReplyDeleteDevon- I really agree with what you said about people being represented as robots for not wanting to be out of the norm. Do you think society is somewhat like that today?
ReplyDeletesean- I think she will get herself into a lot of trouble because the authority figures are trying to get rid of history by burning the books and she might encourage people to stop and the firemen don't want that.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that thee world is going to end up like the one portrayed in the book?
ReplyDeleteEmily W- I also believe something bad will happen to her.
ReplyDeleteKristin- Perhaps the snake symbolizes how truly evil and controlling of a civilization they live in. Maybe the scene is in a way alluding to the Bible because in religious thought, snakes are an incarnation of evil. Just like in the book of Genesis when Satan takes the form of a snake and convinces Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. Perhaps Montag's wife attempting to kill herself more fully represents the forbidden fruit which is in this scene attempting to fulfill her own desires which were not allowed in the society.
ReplyDeleteMolly and Meg..
ReplyDeleteI agree with Meg in that too many books have been published that shouldn't be for the publics knowing. Also, I think burning books will eliminate the curiosity of everyone since they won't be able to look up their history. In a way the society is making everyone more equal.
Meg in response to your response to my question: just to clarify.. so you think that an author maybe published something that offended the government and in return they banned books?
ReplyDeleteDakota- I agree with you about how she will get herself in a lot of trouble and I think that Montag will follow her and try to get her out of trouble and he will stop burning books and help her.
ReplyDeleteMeg-
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag's wife might want to stay inside because everything around her is the same or restricted so it doesn't really matter if she says in side or not. But I also think that she might have a mental or medical condition because she tried to OD on sleeping pills and then later denied that it even happened. I think the cause is possibly depression that could have developed through her unhealthy relationship with Montag and also from the society she lives in.
In response to Molly's question. i think that technology has caused this society to become so robotic. The government realized that with technology they could decide what people see and hear and therefore basically control the way they think. By burning books they ensure that nobody has anyway to get a different idea in their head.
ReplyDeleteMeg
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the government have had something to do with destroying the society. I think that people had just taken matters into their own hands and let the situation get out of hand. However, I think that technology had spread a word that wasn't good. Also, I think that they burned the books because they don't want to destroy the technology that drives their lives.
Earl - I don't think that we'll get to the point where we want to erase all of the history and information conserved inside of books, but I think that we will become more and more dependent on technology and soon enough our world will become more and more corrupt.
ReplyDeleteSean-No I don't want to know what happens to her.
ReplyDeleteKaitlin:
ReplyDeleteFirst of all I'd like to point out that you called me Meg instead of Meghan, significant!
Second, but based on that I don't feel like it signifies people take lots of pills the way his wife does, anyone can take sleeping pills but it seems like his wife has problems with it. She not only takes pills but seems to take them a lot and forgets whether she takes them or not and keeps taking them until she passes out. Also, when the machine replaced her blood and pumped her stomach, the next morning she couldn't remember anything. When Montag told her she had taken too many pills she denied it, saying she would never do such a thing.
Jake M, I agree. She seems to care much more about her T.V. and nothing else. She pays more attention to her T.V. "family" then she does her real family.
ReplyDeleteEarl, I don't think our world will end up like the one in the book. Our world will definitely change, but I don't think we will become this robotic and strange.
ReplyDeleteDakota- I think so too, she seems to be a very curious person. Especially with the wild kids, (with not many laws) I can't kind of tell something will happen.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the pros and cons of technology on our society today?
ReplyDeleteCLASS:
ReplyDeleteWhy would they ban books but not television?? they are both portraying a story in someone elses perspective?
Earl- It really scares me to think about that question because that would be a horrible place to live in. But, no, I think the world will never become what it is like in the book because there is so much diversity in the world today.
ReplyDeleteKristin:
ReplyDeleteI don't think people would be the one who turns fire departments from putting out fires to creating fires thought. Yes people can create the idea but the government would be the one's who have to enforce it so I feel like the people just went along with it and the government had convinced them that this is the right direction.
Emily W- O.K.
ReplyDeletemollyb2012-
ReplyDeleteI believe that the reason why this society has come to burning books is because the government has realized that the only way to remain in power is to lose right for knowledge. This story is portraying that "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!" School House Rock
Molly:
ReplyDeleteDid they particularly mention that they do/do not have television?
Kristen: I think that he compares the machine to a snake because the machine takes some blood out of the body and the snake sucks the life out of its prey.
ReplyDeleteMolly: what it might be is that something bad happened in history and the government wanted to cover it up. so they put out a law to get rid of their history and just mark everything that happened before as the dark ages.
ReplyDeleteMolly- It is because they can control T.V. They can't control what books have written in them in the past, they could make more books about things that they approve of.
ReplyDeleteMolly I think that the government can control what is showed on television but not necessarily what is written and published in books.
ReplyDeleteEarl- I agree with Nick that we will become extremely reliant on technology, but not to the point that we burn away our history.
ReplyDeletemoemoney122- Why does the government want to take away everyones knowledge away. and i love school house rock!!!! :) Thats a very good point that you made
ReplyDeleteI agree with JakeL because If the world today ended up like this it would not be a very good place to in and I don't think this will happen because the world is way to diverse and it just doesn't seem possible for the world to become like this. I guess the world could become this bad but I just can't see it happening
ReplyDeleteMollyB
ReplyDeleteI think that they keep television and choose to burn books because books are easier to destroy and they can control what is being said on television. I also believe that they feel the need to burn books because there are so many books in the society with different opinion that they "have to" get rid of the books before they even start to think about getting rid of the television.
NickM-
ReplyDeleteI beleive it could be a dead body that he's seeing. He might be seeing that because of the kerosene fumes are getting to his head along with the lack of sleep and stress.
My thoughts are that when those people came with those machines they also some how erased her memory. Maybe there is a higher person that is running the whole society trying to keep everything happy. When things like this happen they completely erase the memory. They do not want unhappiness or questioning. They want everything to roll smoothly. No questions, no worries, no competing. Kind of the same reason they burn the books.
ReplyDeletemoemoney122:
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you said, so you're inferring the entire moral of the story is "knowledge is power"?
Molly-books are paper-T.V. represent technology which is the direction this society is heading.
ReplyDeleteMeg-they do have television because Mildred mentions about putting in a 4th wall. Which I think is one huge T.V.
Molly- I don't know if the "walls" are exactly television. Also books can influence you in a way that television can not.
ReplyDeleteMolly-
ReplyDeleteI think that they banned books and not television because books are physically in your hand and television is not. Even though both are telling a story from a certain person's perspective television does not allow analysis like a book does. Having a book physically in your hand allows you to analyze, dwell, and develop your own opinion. In ways it can be worse then actually seeing what happens because a book in open for interpretation.
Do you think the meaning behind this story is kind of mocking the government in portraying the laws they can make gone wrong?
ReplyDeleteCaleb - That's a possibility, that's interesting, I never thought of that before.
ReplyDeleteMoemoney- I think that the autumn leaves could further symbolize the motif of death or endings. The author is constantly alluding to suicide or burning of books, which is a death of knowledge, or perhaps even the darkness because night is the end or death of a day. Perhaps these foreshadow some sort of death to oppression or the unquestioning obedience he has for his leaders or perhaps an actual death of some sorts. H
ReplyDeleteEmily:
ReplyDeleteOh yes, thank you. I forgot about that.
Moe- ya it could be a body he's seeing but i think that he's hiding a book or something secretly in the vent that he looks at when he walks in the door
ReplyDeleteMeg
ReplyDeleteI disagree with one that the moral of the story is "knowledge is power." I think that it could be more of a motif rather than a moral.
Meg- I don't think so, I think its more of technology because of the wall T.V.'s and the seashell ears. Or maybe it is, it was written in the 50's. It could be for any place or thing that takes over our lives.
ReplyDeleteCLASS:
ReplyDeleteIn your personal opinion: Would You like a society that does not have books? why or why not?
Sean M- I agree with you when you say that books can influence a person more than television can. I agree with you because books can have a different meaning to each person who reads it. Books can tell stories and paint pictures in a persons mind and a television set can never do that.
ReplyDeleteAustin, I agree. I believe her uncle sparks a lot of the thoughts she has and then she just pursues them.
ReplyDeleteclarisse wants to know more about the past and what happened up to this point and how it had happened.
ReplyDeleteMeg-
ReplyDeleteI do think that in ways the book is mocking the government because typically governments decide to do things that would make a better society and to make people happier. But so far in the book people seem unhappy and worse then how they were doing before the government interfered so much.
Molly:
ReplyDeleteNo, I mean that the author is making fun of the government and mocking them for the laws that they restrict and how they can change the laws and change history and things like that...and how people rebel and government struggles with their appearance.
Do you think they have Internet?
I agree with moemoney122 when he says "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER" because powerful people like presidents are very smart. In order for a person to become president they have to be very smart and have a law degree which are very hard to get if you are not knowledgeable.
ReplyDeleteClass
ReplyDeleteHow does the weather change depending on the attitudes of the characters and what is happening in their lives?
I believe this is what the Robo Dog looks like. warning these images are frightening.
ReplyDeletehttp://images.clipartof.com/small/18840-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Playful-Robotic-Dog-With-Pink-Accents-And-A-Heart-Collar-Wagging-Its-Tail-And-Sticking-Its-Tongue-Out.jpg
Here's another picture.
http://www.findchristmastoys.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/furby-300x300.jpg
Meg- Internet was not invented when the book was made.
ReplyDeleteKristin-It seems to rain every other day which is parallel to the life of Montag. When he's with Clarisse there is good weather for the most part. When he knows he has to go back to his life burning books and his wife who is like a technology vegetable, it rains.
ReplyDeleteMeg: the government I'm not sure this book was a stab at the government but more the overall dependency on technology, and he is portraying that world as an extreme. The government realized most likely that technology leads to power but books lead to knowledge which is also power that power will finally get rid of the dependency on technology decreasing the wealth for the nation.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Earl...
ReplyDeleteI believe that Clarisse does think the world she is in beautiful. I think this because she doesn't worry about all the bad things in life. She is more of a nature freak than a technology nerd. She doesn't care about the walls or how many she has. She cares about family and verbal communication. She thinks that everything is wonderful and she doesn't petty the negative things in life.