Tuesday, April 6, 2010

F451 Fishbowl #6

This is your second-to-last fishbowl, so keep up your great work!

Bring in textual passages whenever possible, and get yourself in a hot seat, even if only for a hovering moment.

Enjoy!

73 comments:

  1. Class
    I found that the hounds seem like a parallel to "sins". The fact that something just follows you until dead, is like having a sin on your back.

    Have you found anywhere else where Bradbury brings religious symbols into the book? Do you think the hound stands for something else?

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  2. Class.

    why do you think Beatty wanted to die?

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  3. I agree with Kaity,that the hound is parallel to sins because unless you confess of the wrong you have done the guilt of the sin follows you and like how the hound is following Montag

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  4. Moe. I think that he wanted to die because he also feels all of the things that Montag does and it is making him crazy. More so than Montag because he has to hide it from people.

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  5. I believe that in some way, Montag truly knew that by taking up this hobby of reading books that in the end it would come to this.

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  6. Kaity, I agree with you about how the hounds are like sins, they hunt you down until you are dead. I think that religious symbols are in the book, like when they "Dear God" and other things like that.

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  7. Kaity- I agree with the sin thing. Because the hound seems like God in this book, not to bring religion into this, but it makes sense because from the beginning the hound was on to Montag, and if you think about it, God knows what you're going to do during you life, and then the hound always knows where Montag is, just like God.

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  8. I agree with Melissah because I think Beatty is sick of every thing that Montag had done and he feels if he dies that everything will be much better

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  9. Moemoney122
    Because Beatty always had some superior knowledge of books and that before the law was passed he enjoyed books and so he always had a deep sadness

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  10. When Montag disconnects the T.V. he seems to actually notice all the violence that is being shown on it and he is appalled. It is as if he had never truly noticed how violent their world was before.

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  11. Moe, I agree with you about how Montag knew that it would end this way, he has seen so many others at the end, where he is now and knew someone would tell the firemen. He has seen it because of how many houses he has burned.

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  12. Moe,
    I think Beatty wanted to die because he was probably sick of having knowledge that he couldn't use. It was obvious he was knowledgeable because he was always quoting things.

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  13. Guy felt betrayed because burning books was his outlet but when he found the bible, he didn't want to burn anymore books. when the other firemen came to his house, he lost it and he felt betrayed by Mildred for raising the alarm. but seeing how she never had paid any attention to him, who would trust her?

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  14. Kaity,

    That's a good observation! I haven't noticed any other religious parallels, but that might be because I am not really familiar with anything related to religion. However, I have noticed patterns and motifs throughout the book. One thing I noticed was that the whole idea of "ignorance is bliss," which is a phrase I hear tossed around every once in a while, is prominent in this book. Everyone seems as though ignoring what is going on around them seems to lead to happiness, but Montag and Faber have realized that people are just being ignorant and they are determined to change this.

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  15. Okay guys, guess what? I think this book is all about the bible! Which is weird, but if you look at it basically in this society it is shown how worldy pleasures, vanity, material goods, and worldly pursuits are worthless, meaningless, and empty. Pursuing the world, filling your life with pursuits of money and pleasure will end up leaving you without anything of real importance in the end. Which is all the basic lessons taught in Ecclesiastes. So now since Montag has the bible, he is like protecting it, and being the prophet. The reference to Dover Beach is significant and relates to this because it uses the waves symbolically as faith, and it is "retreating, to the breath of the night wind" which is leaving life "neither joy nor love nor light." Faith, love, and real meaning are gone, and they are left alone, and they must "be true to one another" at the end to rebuild and survive.

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  16. Moe I think that Beatty wanted to die because he is in the same situation as Montag is, he's just been dealing with it for longer. Montag may possibly welcome death eventually

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  17. I agree with Caleb, Montag was always so caught up in his books and his job that he never had time to figure out what the world was like. On the other hand though he still avoided it most of the time which was probably a good thing.

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  18. If someone you cared about ratted you out like what mildred did what would you do?

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  19. Kaity i agree with you that the hound is parallel to sin. other than the mentions of the bible the only other thing that i found that had to do with religion was the fire. In the beginning of time people beleived in gods to explain the mysteries they couldn't, such as weather and rivers. now with the technology they have solved most of the mysteries, except fire. Beatty says on page 115 "what is fire? it is a mystery." it seems like the fire has become their god.

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  20. I totally agree with you Meg! I can see some real similarities to the bible and Fahrenheit 451.

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  21. Kaity- I agree with you about how Beatty wanted to die because of how much he knew, but couldn't really say. Also how much he was limited to say and to not read and do many things.

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  22. I feel poetry caries a strong message and only the truest of minds that want to learn it will actually read and search the dense forest of ideas to find it. And reading a powerful poem to ignorant people such as Mildred and her friends was like him instinct-fully wanting to get caught so in some way that would be his fire cleansing.

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  23. I don't think he cares more but he cares in a different way. I think he truly knew Clarisse and he did not seem to truly know his wife because they do not pay attention to each other.

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  24. Earl, I think that their situation is different, because Mildred and Montag didn't really care about each other they only went through the motions. So her ratting Montag out would somewhat be expected

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  25. Earl...
    I would be mad but in the end it is also doing Montag better. If they didnt burn the books he would look too much into it and maybe go crazy. So far that is all that he has done is think about the books after he got a hand on them.

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  26. Earl, you would probably have a harder time trusting people and Montag will probably mess up with the pressure on him along the way.

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  27. Earl- if someone very close to me had ratted me out I don't think I would do anything. I would be very angry yes but there would not be much for me to do.

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  28. Nic i disagree, I think Montag and Mildred did care about eachother and that it wasn't that expected that she would rat him out.

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  29. Earl, if someone ratted me out i would probably be pretty upset. However with the situation Montag was in he didn't really have time to be upset or do anything about it. so i guess my reaction would depend on the situation


    What do you think of the way Montag reacted, by killing Beatty?

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  30. Emily K,
    I agree with you that fire is significant in the book, but I don't think it is representational of religion. Although I don't think it has become a god to them, I can see how people are sort of afraid of it, and it is worshiped in a way.

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  31. Class.

    Why do you think Montag randomly bursts into counting?

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  32. In the past books we have read, we have talked about the hero's journey. Can you explain Montag's hero journey? Do you believe Montag is the hero?

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  33. both Meg and Melissa I agree with you and would you think that in a sense those books burning actually helped Montag more than it hurt?

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  34. Earl- I think that anyone would feel betrayed and scared because you trusted that person, but in Fahrenheit 451 Montag doesn't seem to care about Mildred and she doesn't seem to care about him. I think that Montag feels betrayed, but in a different way then you would if he really cared about Mildred the way he cared about Clarisse.

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  35. I have to disagree with Melissa because I think the books are all he has, they are teaching him a lesson and becoming intelligent for reading them. He had something that a lot of people didn't and he took pride in that, especially with the bible.

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  36. Moe,

    It is not random. When he was counting down it was counting down how long he had until all the people in the world opened their doors to look for him. Montag made it to the river before this happened so he was safe.

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  37. I predict that in the end of the book while Montag is being chased he will stop and hold the bible in front of his chest turn around and get shot down.

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  38. Meg
    I understand why you would think that the Fahrenheit 451 is about the bible but I think that their society is crashing and he is the only one that can really notice it or make a difference. Since the bible is the only book that isn't burned because it's so valuable to everyone. So Montag uses the bible because then people would realize what would happen and would make a change since it's not burned.

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  39. Moe,
    Why do you predict that?!

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  40. Do you think we can yet understand and support the authors beginning quote? "If they give you ruled paper, write the other way."

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  41. Moe, Why do you think this is going to happen?

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  42. Class.

    What do you think the war is on?

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  43. Austin - I agree it seems that he used to not relize that burning books was the wrong thing to do but when he met Clarisse she sort of showed him it was wrong

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  44. Moe- I think the war is on reading books and how the rest of the world reads books and how their society doesn't.

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  45. Meg, I think that in a way we can understand this because this quote is kind of saying don't follow the rules stand out and be different. I think that is like Montag and how he stands out and trys to be different and change things.

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  46. That is a good question Meg. i think that thee quote is refering to doing the opposite of everybody and that is what montag is doing. SO i think that we can understand it however i think that we will understand a lot more by the end of the book

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  47. Meg- Holy cow!!! That is a really great idea! I agree the book very much so alludes to the bible!

    Class- If you think about it there was a lot of parallels to the time period when he wrote this book in take for example the television, that was just barely coming out. Also there was the younger generation who had become very rebellious and just different. Their parents listened to Frank Sinatra and the teenagers of that generation listened to the new and upcoming rock and roll with Elvis. Perhaps he is criticizing what direction they were heading. What do you think that Ray Would think of our society today?

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  48. Earl, I definitely think it helped because it opened Montag's eyes. He always had the curiosity but he didn't do anything about it and the thought hadn't even crossed his mind. The books being burned influenced ideas....

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  49. Davis,
    I think it's less significant what the war is about, than the fact that a war is going on and people aren't paying attention to it.

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  50. I predict that will happen because he will realize that while he is running he is not making a difference and since he would be on live TV he would realize that millions would be watching and eventually give his life for a noble cause instead of running. In some way he would be dying to motivate the people with books to rise for a cause. To Redeem Montag.

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  51. why hasn't Clarisse's uncle been mentioned lately? Why was he an important character to have in the book?

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  52. Kaityi- I agree I don't get why the author made such a big deal of Clarisse's uncle as a character but now he has not been mentioned for a long time.

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  53. What is the significance of Bradbury making the choice to have Beatty burn to death?

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  54. I think that Clarisse was the inspiration for Montag to try and change things. With out her his eyes would never have been opened. Do you think she will be brought back into the book at the end?

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  55. Kaity- I think that Clarisse's uncle isn't in hte book because Clarisse isn't in the book anymore and she was the person who made Montag think about how unhappy he is and how he could be different. She mentions him a lot so I think that it just faded away and became more about Montag than other people.

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  56. Kaityi-

    I believe that Clarisse's uncle was important to the book because it shows that their are more people in the world that are as strange as Clarisse.

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  57. Class- Do you guys think that there are any other people like Montag in this society who read like montag but aren't willing to come out with it? Do you think that one might take him in and hide him from the hound or would they be too scared to take him in? Also do you think being cowardly is a motif in this book?

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  58. I was wondering what the significance of Beatty being burned to death also.

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  59. Kaity:
    I think he is just making it kind of ironic because Beatty is a firefighter.

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  60. Kaity,
    Bradbury could have decided to have Beatty burn to death just for the irony of having the fire chief who is in charge of starting fires die by fire.

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  61. Kaityi
    I think bradbury wanted to have some irony in the story, he burns books and than gets burned himself personally it made me laugh a little.

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  62. Emily- I think that she will be brought back he will be thinking about her and it will be a circle, but he will have a very different outlook on life and how he goes about things. Like at the beginning of the book he was very reserved and he never thought about being happy. She made him think about it and she started his drive to become happy.

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  63. mgardner, I think for sure that there are others just like Montag and are afraid to say that they read because they might see that the hound is hunting Montag and they don't want to be in that situation.

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  64. Maddie-
    I think there are people like Montag out there. There might even be a community of people. I like to relate it to the movie "I Am Legend" because in that movie the main character hopes there is someone out there like him, and in the end finds people just like him. So, I do think there are other people probably hiding out in a secret community of something.

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  65. mgardner
    i believe that there are many many people who are also like montag but not exactly and i feel that none will help him cause they are all so oppressed by the government, Montag will have to continue to run from the hound

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  66. Emily K,
    Although I would agree that Clarisse played an important role in Montag's life, I don't think she will be brought back into the story at the end. I think Montag will realize toward the end what a significant role she played in his life, but I think it will be portrayed more with symbolic effect.

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  67. I think that there are lots of other people that read but won't come out with it. I think that eventually Faber and Montag will find these other people and they will work together to change the future of their society.

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  68. Class- Do you think fire could represent death in this book? Could Montag smelling like kerosene somehow foreshadow his death?

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  69. Maddie,
    I think fire represents both life and death. Fire destroys, but like a Phoenix, fire can also represent new life.

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  70. class-

    Although this is a stretch from out current topic. But towards the begginning of the book Montag when ever a stressful situation arises Montag begins to count. Why does he do this? what is its purpose in the story?

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  71. I think I was absent for this one so I've read over the comments and I want to touch on the hero's journey topic. I think that Montag is not the hero in this book. Clairise is the one who changed Montag into being the way he is. He is somewhat a hero because he follows the typical "hero's journey." He is one way, looses someone who makes him change, changes into a better person. He eventually sided with books instead of burning them but the true hero is the one who made him seek the change. Also, I want to add to the comments about religion. I think that the Bible was or was not burned because of its value. Maybe it was burned and disregarded because it had too much information or maybe it was not burned because it gave people something to believe in in the tough times they were struggling with as a society.

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